Garlock & McKinney

Navigating Wills, Probates, Trusts, and Guardianships with Mariah McKinney

In this episode, Christa and new Host, Marlon Weems, interview Mariah McKinney, a lawyer and partner at Garlock & McKinney. They explore crucial yet often overlooked legal matters including wills, probates, trusts, and guardianships. Mariah shares the complexities of probate administration, the importance of comprehensive estate planning, and the risks of not having a financial or healthcare power of attorney.

Mariah also shares her journey from Western to Eastern North Carolina and her deep connection to Topsail Island.

www.garlockandmckinney.com
Message Mariah
Phone: (828) 357-4510

Topsail Insider is Sponsored by Saltwater Resort & Suites - Topsail Island’s premier luxury hospitality experience! Book your beach getaway today at SaltwaterTopsail.com or call (910) 886-4818!

Co-Hosts: Marlon Weems and Christa Schroeder
Edited by Jim Mendes-Pouget  |  jimpouget@gmail.com

Please Follow/Subscribe to Topsail Insider on your favorite podcast-listening platform!

Please also visit www.topsailinsider.com and sign up for our Mailing List where you’ll get early access to upcoming episodes.

Or leave a Voicemail for Topsail Insider right from the website - your message just might be featured in an upcoming episode!

Follow Topsail Insider on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube!

If you are a Greater Topsail business owner or nonprofit, Register to be a Guest on our website at www.topsailinsider.com!

Or if you wish to Sponsor or Advertise with Topsail Insider, please email christa@topsailinsider.com or call/text 910-800-0111.

Thanks - I’ll see you around Topsail!

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to Topsail Insider, where you can hear all about the businesses and events in the beautiful coastal towns in the greater Topsail area of North Carolina. Coming up, today we're interviewing Mariah McKinney. A lawyer and partner at Garlock McKinney. We'll discuss wills, probates, trusts, guardianships. All things we should be thinking about now but tend to put off until it's too late. Are you prepared? Do you think you might be prepared but don't know for sure? Are you currently caught up in a probate situation that has you losing sleep at night? If so, stay tuned for this and more. Today on Topsail Insider, it's time to indulge and experience the finest coastal hospitality on Topsail Island with Saltwater Resort and Suites in Surf City, North Carolina. Designed to exceed your expectations, guests can enjoy elegant suites featuring premium luxurious bedding, fully equipped kitchens with dishwashers, 75 inch flat screens, ensuite washers and dryers, and gorgeous ocean views. With the grand opening of their newest location, you can now relax in their saltwater pool and modern clubhouse, perfect for unwinding, socializing, and private events. Book your next beach getaway today at saltwatertopsoil. com or call 910 422 4222. 886 4818 Saltwater Resort and Suites, redefining luxury on Topsail Island. Hello everyone. My name is Krista and I am your co host today and I'd like to introduce Mr. Marlon Weems, a new Topsail Insider co host who has his own podcast experience, is an incredible writer. He has an extensive financial and entrepreneurial background, which we will one day be recording Marlon so that people can really get a feel for you. Thanks for the, the introduction, Krista. I am really excited to be on the team. Awesome. Our guest today is Mariah McKinney. Mariah is a lawyer and a partner at Garlock and McKinney. So welcome Mariah and thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. before we dive in, I think it'd be good if you gave us sort of a quick overview of the legal services that you provide and then after that maybe we can get into the details of, you know, why these are so important in, in our next segment. Yeah, sure. Just for a brief summary. we do probate administration, estate administration is another way to describe it, guardianships. A lot of times that's involving adults who lack, mental capacity. They can't really make decisions for themselves. So they need the court to appoint someone to do that for them. A lot of things involving trusts and wills and proceedings before the court. So there's, a lot of people are familiar with. a civil action or a traffic court, but there's a lot of things that go on in front of the clerk of court that involves estates and guardianships and probate. And so I do, I handle those proceedings. Now, I know from our previous conversations, you know, just in terms of your location, you're officially in Topsail, on Topsail Island, or in the Topsail area now. But before that, you also had a long history here. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about, you know, your transition, I guess, from Western North Carolina to, to Eastern and, and how that all came about. Yeah. So I'm a North Carolina girl through and through. I was born in the Sandhills in Lee County. And, my dad remarried and he lived in Wake County. So, I graduated from high school in Wake County. And then, because I love the beach so much, I went to UNCW because I just had to be as close to the ocean as I could possibly be. And that's because my grandparents had worked really hard to work their way to Topsail Island. So, they ended up living in Surf City for over 30 years until they both passed away there. And so growing up, from the time I was a small child, I just spent as much time as I possibly could with them there on the island. If they went fishing, I went fishing. they were fishermen, not for income per se, but they did eat what they killed. And we loved fishing together. They would spend like, you know, nights, midnight, 3 a. m., 5 a. m., whatever the, the catch was going to be and the time that you needed to fish on the pier, they were out on the pier. So they were as much, yeah, as much as they could. They worked so that they could then have time to fish. Like, so they worked to like basically feed their fishing habit. Topswell Island was a huge fishing town for the longest time and just that, that's what you came to Surf City for was to, to fish off that pier and, and off the surf as well. Yeah, that's what they loved and that's what they were here for. Do you remember some of like the older stores that are no longer here? Yes, and they had so many jobs. I don't even know like how they worked all the jobs that they worked So they ran the East Coast discount store, which is now the East Coast sporting goods right there underneath the high rise bridge They helped run the Barnacle Bills Pier in different aspects of that business. There was a motel near Barnacle Bills Pier before Fran destroyed both Barnacle Bills and the motel. They actually ran the motel and flipped over, like cleaned and turned over all of the stays and they had a little. It was crazy because it was like up on the second floor of that motel. It's like a two story motel and they like built a home residence out like on top of the second story of that and they had this panoramic view of the ocean. They were literally just steps from the ocean and they had this Huge glass window and every morning we would just pull back the big drapes and then the ocean was just right there So gorgeous. Yeah, it was it was awesome. They my grandmother also worked at the IGA And they worked at Seaview Pier. I mean they worked everywhere. They were just Literally, it was like their heart and soul, you know, the island was just a part of them I know you're, you met your husband and he's from the other side of the state and you referred to him as a mountain man. Yep, yep. So it's interesting to me, I'd really like to know how you convinced your mountain man to become a beach mom. So UNCW doesn't have a law school. There's no law schools here on the East Coast, so I had to go back to the Raleigh area And then I graduated from law school and was working in Raleigh with the judicial branch. One of my jobs was, I was assistant legal counsel and I actually advised the clerks of court. I wrote training procedures for them. I helped them make decisions. And now that's the practice area that I do. So I know it really well from that. So he is in the financial department. through that same governmental entity, and he just happened to live at the mountains, even though I was a beach girl. So that is how much, I loved him that I went to the mountains to be with him. And so now it's kind of like my turn. He had sons and they were very young and they needed to graduate from high school and have the opportunities in their hometown that they could have to, you know, grow up and graduate and go into the world. And now that they are older, you know, they're over 20 and they're in the world, we can now come here to the beach and, and, and do that part. Yeah. Reciprocate. That's right. That's right. Now you've got family here still. I do. And what's, what's crazy about it is when I was in Raleigh, it was sort of like my mom and sister moved here. As a precursor, because they were like, well, we're all going to eventually be here at the beach. And then I moved all the way across the state to the mountains. So I, I disrupted the plan. Well, my husband disrupted the plan, right? It's his fault. Put it on him. But yeah, so my sister and my brother in law, they live in Sneeds Ferry. And my mom lives in Sneads Ferry. And then my husband and I, we also have a small rental condo in North Topsville. So we get to stay there on the off season. We rent it on the on season. And a lot of people might know my brother in law. his name is Scott, but he's known, as Scotty Strings. Oh, I know. This is so crazy because as we talked about, my wife, for a couple of years was the, bar manager at the Quartermoon. And so part of her, responsibilities was arranging all of the musical entertainment. So when you said, you know, my brother in law is kind of well known. I was like, I, I'm sure I know this guy and, and I see him all the time. Oh my gosh. He's so good. And, His, his Johnny Cash is, is like primo. Yes. We have a lot of fun together singing and playing music. And so yeah, I love being here, you know, with my family. We spend a lot of time together. Just from, you know, I guess going back to your, your area of expertise and, you know, whether it's personal or business related, what would you say has been your, your biggest challenge moving, you know, from the West over to the coast? I mean, and I guess maybe both personally and, and business wise. Yeah. I think the biggest challenge was that, you know, sometimes in life you just have wanted something or it's been your dream and you know you want it now. And we have had to do this in a period of time. We've had to work towards it. So I've actually been coming to work remotely here for long periods of time since 2015. So I would come for two weeks and then I would try it for a month and then I'd say, oh, this is, this could work. Two months and thankfully my law partner is so great. We complement each other so well and from the beginning of us coming together there I said, now listen, I'm on a five year plan and in five years I'm, I'm going to the, I'm going to the beach. When these kids graduate from high school, it didn't happen exactly in five years, but I started working towards that. And so I would say that's probably been the most challenging thing is figuring out how to do it slowly. And you know, a lot of people just move and they're just there now. And we haven't done that, that way. But it's also been cool because it's given us this transition period of time where, you know, a lot of times if you just quit, you know, you quit what you're doing and you move, you have that period of grief. A lot of people say after about six months, you kind of grieve the loss of where you left. And so we're not really going to have that so much as we've kind of worked towards it. You kind of segwayed into it. Yeah, so the challenge has worked out. Not quite as painful. But you had to exercise your patience. It sounds like your patience. And basically packing up, you know, if you go, I go back to the mountains sometimes for two weeks or three weeks, depending on what's happening and you're, you have to pack up everything you're going to need. So you're almost like moving three times a year, which is. Crazy. That's challenging. It's building lots of character. That's a good positive spin on it. That's right. So why don't we talk and maybe dig in a little bit to, into your primary areas of business. And as I understand it, You, you've got four sort of buckets of business, wills, probates, trusts, and guardianship. So why don't you tell us a little bit about each one of those and what, struggles or how hard or easy each one, is, or maybe even talk about how important it is to sort of prepare for those things sooner rather than later. Yeah. probate and guardianship. are the things that once you get into that place, you're, you're before the court. So you're at the default level. So it's a, it's kind of like almost like you failed to plan to avoid someone else making decisions for you. So when you get into probate and guardianship, you're talking about super costly. You know, contested estates, you can see multiple attorneys coming in, representing multiple people, and you can see hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Sometimes that couldn't be avoided, but sometimes it could have been avoided if the intentions were made known and if the estate plan was written in such a way that it worked the way that the person intended. And so a lot of the things can be avoided. A lot of those costs can be avoided. I think a lot of people, including myself, we haven't come up against those issues yet in our life. I'm fortunate enough to have both of my parents, as is my husband. So we don't really understand. We know that everyone needs a will, but I don't understand probate. I don't understand trusts and guardianship as well. So can you kind of explain that to the people who Really just think we need to write something like, I leave this to this person and we think we're done when we're really not. Yeah, that does kind of go into a real technical area. I can just say to you the most simple way to describe probate is that it's the process of collecting everything that's owed to a person, finally, after they pass. Paying off all the debts and finalizing their final tax returns. And yes, people think that you don't have to file tax returns once you die, but, you know, someone else has to actually file that one for you, so taxes do survive you. And then, the probate is that process where whatever's left over after you settle all those things, you then transfer it to the proper people. So, what I could say about a will is there's a lot of technical things that would make it valid. There's a lot of technical things that could go wrong to make it invalid. There's also ways that you can write it or plan to minimize probate and that is all a part of the comprehensive services that I give my clients is I help them get that right. So, a lot of people think, well, if I have a will or I just write something down, I avoid probate. I'm taken care of. But that's not true. A will just helps the beginning of the probate process go easier, and it also helps make it clear during the process. But avoiding probate or minimizing probate is something that you actually do with a experienced estate planning attorney, and that's asset per asset planning. A will doesn't do that for you. Sometimes, a trust. Can be involved in doing that and helping with that process, but It really is a process. I use that word a lot with clients because it's not a one and done. You don't just do a will and you're done and everything's taken care of. Well, it is for you because you won't be here, but your family is going to be very upset. Yeah. Powers of attorney are the documents. that you get in place, and it names the people that you choose to make those most important, most personal decisions for you. And because my law partner is actually the public guardian in Buncombe County, and, and that's in the Asheville, Black Mountain, And what that means is, is when the documents aren't there, or the documents fail, or somebody's exploiting someone, the court appoints him to manage people's finances. So he's actually, the financial guardian of about 65 people. And we have probably about 40 or 50 special needs trusts. So, we are helping manage, the most vulnerable population's money. He sees to it that all their bills are paid, that their, you know, nursing home or their facility or if they're in a care home or group home and that, you know, even if they need a cell phone. Like, it's down to that. And so, think about that. You make all those decisions for yourself, right? You have the freedom to choose how you spend your money. Well, what if somebody else was doing that for you? Do you want the court to tell you who's going to do that or do you want to put that in writing yourself and get it right and make sure that document works the way that you want it to? And so that's really the guardianship part of it. We want to avoid guardianship as much as possible. It's difficult to fully avoid probate in North Carolina, but you can substantially minimize that impact. But we want to stay out of guardianship court. Because we don't want the court telling us how we can and cannot spend our money on our own health care. Are you saying if someone hasn't assigned a power of attorney to a family member, they can actually choose to assign power of attorney to a lawyer? Like for the special needs cases that you were talking about, are you saying that you are the power of attorney for These people and you manage that for them if they don't have a family member in place to do that for them. It's actually a really good question. There are people that don't have people they trust to do those things. We won't do the healthcare decision making in a healthcare power of attorney. There are some entities that will do that. We will sometimes do the financial. under a financial power of attorney. But in the situation I was talking about with my law partner, When someone is disabled, in order for them to be able to have some money that maybe somebody gave to them, and then also be on government assistance, that it has to be in a special type of trust that's called a special needs trust. Okay. And so my law partner is actually a trustee, which is different than a power of attorney. A trust is, is kind of like a business, is how I try to get people to understand it. Think about a business, it owns things, it might have a bank account, and then there's a document that says how that thing is supposed to run. Interesting. That's what a trust is. Interesting. Thank you for that. Yeah. So I was going to ask you about your partner, Victor Garlock. Yeah. So he's on the other side of the state. He is. It's almost like, you know, like a long distance relationship you guys have. So how's that going to work? Well, it's funny that you say that because I remember there was a time when we first got the Black Mountain office there. We both worked remotely before that. So that, working remotely feels so natural to us because that's how we had done things. Well, so he decided he would come in on Tuesdays and Thursdays to the office. That would be like his meeting with clients, seeing me, meeting with his case managers that help him with the guardianships and trusts. But then Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, he would continue the work remote. But then I was like, well, I'm in Black Mountain. Our office is a mile down the road. I'm just going to go to the office every day, you know. And so there was a, a time where it came up that he was going to come in on a Friday or something. And I said, listen, the way that this marriage works is you only come Tuesdays, Thursdays. So, just jokingly, but no, we, the way that we do things is we're just there for each other. When a big decision needs to be made, we just get on the phone or if we happen to be in the same geographical location, we'll get together and maybe have a little bourbon, maybe some cigars. Okay. And we make our best decisions like that. You're speaking my language now. We do. We'll get together. We have to start at 2. and then about 5 o'clock we Turn on the cigars and and the bourbon. but that's we just you know We're just there for each other and we don't really need to be physically in the same place I mean lots of law firms have multiple offices in multiple places And they still function and run just fine and that was part of it is that we just started talking about how would this work and Testing it. Like I said, it wasn't like just ripping the band aid off I slowly did this so we were able to work out some kinks about hey How's this working and we check in with each other several times a year We'll have one big meeting once a year where I just say it's just you know, it's just still working, right? We kind of have an agreement that if the costs ever outweigh the benefits It's either one of us can just get out if we need to. Sounds like you have, you have a, a pretty great relationship. We really do. We really do. So in terms of your business here, I assume you have a physical location. I mean, how do, how do people that want your services, get in touch with you or, or contact you? Yeah. So the best way to reach me is through our website and that is Garlock, G A R L O C K, the word and, A N D, McKinney, M C K I N N E Y dot com. So if they do that, they can just send me a message. Okay. And then I'll call them. Or, they can call me. I have a 828 number, but it comes directly to me. That number's on the website. we do lease an office space at Innit Realty right now in Sneeds Ferry, but most of the time, you know, if my clients are in Hampstead or Surf City or wherever, Jacksonville, they just want me to come to them. So I just do that. And then if we have to do a will signing, we have to have two other witnesses that aren't related to them. And Sneeds Ferry, we have to go somewhere that's convenient for them anyways. So, no, no walk ins or people just showing up at your office? We don't do walk ins because I just find that to be a really inefficient way to, to practice law and I also think that it takes away from my other clients, so I really cater and customize my schedule to what my clients need. Okay, and I know this maybe it's kind of touchy but in terms of the cost or the price and structure How does that work? Yeah, sure. So Probate and guardianships as I said, you can see multiple lawyers in that hundreds of thousands of dollars If you work with me for a probate or guardianship, it's going to cost, you know, probably twenty thousand dollars And it goes up from there. It's just how much time is involved and my rate is 3. 25 an hour. However, our charges are transparent. So my clients know up front what the terms are and they know as we're going through the process how much they're paying, how much we're charging. We don't charge more money unless the client is okay with it and approves it. Are always communicating with our client about money and how much does it cost? Well, we try really hard to avoid that. And then if someone wants to do a will with me for the basic estate planning, which still includes comprehensive advice. We get down to the details for a couple, it starts at 1500 and then for individual a thousand or so. And I would just tell people, you know, if you're looking for cheap, right. It's going to cost you more later. And if you're okay with that, you're okay with that. But you know, I don't do cheap wills. That's just not my thing. Not trying to be the low cost leader. And I, you know, I worked in two probate offices as well as being. I'm the associate legal counsel for the clerks of court, so I really know probate well. So the prices that we charge is very competitive with other lawyers that would have the same type of experience. I still think I probably beat some of their prices. But what you get when you work with me is really worth what you're paying. So now that you have the office here, are you hiring staff or is it just you? How's that? Right now it's just me here. And our staff in Black Mountain, they're awesome. So they can support me whatever I need, even if they're remote. I am not looking to hire right now, but we'll see, you know, maybe sometime next year. So the way that we make decisions is We just sort of try to look at what's happening, and like I said, we check in several times a year, my law partner and I, and so, if it seemed like the clients here were needing more than what I could give them. Then we would talk about, can we hire someone and can they do that? But what we don't want to do is hire a lot of warm bodies, but the client's needs aren't being met at the level that I think that they need. So we're really careful about how we grow. I remember from our earlier conversation that you also stated that you tend to dive in to probate and, and will issues that are already kind of in the process of being worked out and they got really messy. And it's, it's become like a big ordeal and those are, that's what you thrive in. Like you dive in and you clean up the mess, kind of. Can you tell us a little bit about that and like, are you taking these over from other lawyers or is it just, it's, it starts out messy? Or did someone else make a mess of it and then you decided to clean it up? Yeah. So I am one of the lawyers that will help people when it's already started. A lot of law firms will say, you have to start with me. Okay. And that way, they know they can control the process. But what happens in estates a lot of times is, there are a lot of things that you can anticipate. You have to do a certain step. But throughout that process, you could have, for example, a creditor you didn't know about. You have to deal with that. And sometimes those kinds of issues just blow up so quickly, and it's kind of like quicksand and the person just gets, you know, sucked up by it. So, and it goes off the rails quickly. So I do really enjoy, I hate it that people have to be in those situations, but once they do get themselves in those situations, Then I do really like helping them out of it. So I'll just work with them. We just put in the hard work, even when something goes awry. You know, for example, this has happened a couple of times. So you go into the courthouse and you open your estate, and then you go through your whole thing. You pay the bills. You distribute all the money. You assume you're doing everything correctly. The clerks. office cannot give legal advice. They give you a packet of papers. They give you a brochure. Well, there's so many different ways that the wording in that brochure can be interpreted. And so the clients do things and they go to file what's called an accounting with the court. The court actually audits every single thing to the penny. You can't even round up or down like you can with the IRS. They're worse than that. So yeah, they file their documents. And they don't know until after they've done it all, if they're doing it themselves, that they've done it wrong. And then the clerk's like, you've done it wrong, but we can't help you fix it. You need a lawyer. So they've already paid money out, they've already done these things, and they come to me and they're just so upset. They're worried they're going to go to jail. They don't know, you know, they're just, it's really sad. And so what I do is I help them make it right. And sometimes they have to pay money. out of pocket because they did something wrong. They, they didn't mean to. It wasn't intentional, but they have to make it right. And so I help them, I help advise them and coach them along and encourage them to get it right. It's just so interesting. I've actually been there indirectly with a relative and we thought she had really planned well. I mean, they had the will, etc. But back to your earlier point, She lived a long time, and you know, 89, 90, she just wasn't able to handle her affairs and we had to go through that guardianship conversation. Fortunately, one of my brothers was able to get the court to allow him to take over, and fortunately he's trustworthy. So it worked out, but it's a very complicated situation, and I would not Want to try to do it myself. One example of it, what could happen if someone doesn't have a financial power of attorney. And I don't mean to sound scary, because it's going to be a scary situation, but we see this all the time. Since my law partner is, you know, a financial guardian for so many people. So husband and wife buy their home together. On the deed, they are a married couple, husband and wife. If one of them passes away and they don't have a will, Their home will go to the survivor. No big deal. But, if one of the spouses was in an accident, and we've seen this happen so many times, and they became unconscious. They then became brain damaged. They could no longer do anything like sign over property or sell property or pay their own bills. And this couple doesn't have financial powers of attorney. The other spouse cannot sell the marital home without. filing a lawsuit against their spouse. It's called an incompetency proceeding. Oh my gosh. They have to file a guardianship against their spouse. The court appoints a lawyer for the spouse to represent the spouse. It's called a guardian ad litem and it is a lawyer. It's not a guardian ad litem like in DSS child support. So that lawyer then represents the spouse against their spouse. A lot of times it works out being not against, but from a legal perspective, we need to understand it's adversarial. Right. On paper. Yeah. So then once the court says, okay, fine, you can be the guardian. You still have to account to the court for how you spend each other's money. So this joint account that you, you used to have together where you share money, you now split your money and you have to pay your spouse's bills separately. Can't buy joint food. You can't pay that. It has to be separate. And then, and then you still can't sell the house. You have to file yet another proceeding and request the court to give you permission to sell the other half. So we're talking how much money after that, 30, 000, 40, 000, 50, 000. So because maybe somebody doesn't want to do their documents or they want a cheap power of attorney, a do it yourself one. They're now on guardianship court because it, it failed. And that's the thing that I would like to help people avoid the most. That is scary. It is. I don't believe people know about this. No, certainly not. They don't until they do. I have never heard this before. They don't until they do. Yeah. And it's too late. Wow. Okay. Well, thanks for, thanks for that. Yeah. Moving on. Yeah. Don't wait until you have to, you know, do that. Don't wait until it's too late. Well, this is why a lot of people, they don't know that that's a possible scenario, but they do hear you have to have those things. So they go and get them, but some people don't. And those are the people who actually, unfortunately go through that situation. And I guess that's the folks that show up at your door. Yeah. And we'll help them, and I'm glad to help them, but I want to help people avoid having to do that. Sure. But it's good that people like you are around, though, too, because, That is one heck of a mess. It is. And I think this is a very important episode and, and I thank you for explaining that in such detail because really I feel clueless and after that now I'm, I'm also scared. I've learned a lot, but, um, yeah, I've definitely got to make some plans too. Well, I have my business cards with me. Yeah, we'll take some. Let me, let me ask you this. What, you know, as you talk about this and you've done a lot, I just wonder, where do you see the business? Five years from now. What what are the plans for the future? Yeah, I mean, I I love to help people with complicated things, you know in my practice area So I am just super grateful to be able to be in this place that I've dreamed of being in You know for so long and be able to bring with me this experience that I have and this knowledge that I have and to like offer these services to help the people here and the citizens of our great, you know, Topsail area. And so that is so exciting to me. I don't like it that people go through hard things, but I feel very fortunate to be able to be one of the people that can help them through some of those things. So really, I am just taking on the clients that come my way and helping them, you know, one at a time. And if, you know, I don't think that they're a good fit, or if I think I have colleagues statewide, that's the benefit of having practiced in Wake County and knowing people in state government and being in the mountains and being here, I can get people help. For pretty much any type of legal issue that they need, even if I'm not the best one to help them. But, and a lot of people they'll cold call law firms, they'll call 10 law firms sometimes and then I'll talk to them and they'll say, you're the only person that called me back in a short period of time. And so sometimes I can just help them get to the next level because lawyers are really busy and taking in a cold call and taking that client on not knowing them. But if you have another lawyer, get them to you. They're going to get in and get the, the, their needs met a lot quicker. So I can do that for people as well. It's relatively easy for you to work with people from outside our area or across North Carolina period. So is there a way around the signatures when you're signing documents? A ton of my clients are out of state. Are they? Oh, out of state as well. Yeah. I don't meet with a lot of my clients in person. Okay. I can do so many things and have been for years and years and years before we had this whole. So do you sign documents electronically? The court won't let you do that and you can't do that with wills. So, what you do with, probate documents is I have this whole system, this way that I get them to the clients, and they have this list of instructions, like bulleted instructions, each document, what it is, they have opportunities to talk with me or get on Zoom if we need to or whatever it is that they need. And then they have the instructions to go get them notarized and then how to get them back to us so then we can do the filing. Mailing it through FedEx or UPS or whatever with detailed, detailed instructions. Yeah, and either me or my staff members will help coordinate that. That's a great question. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. So you're working with out of state, so it's not just North Carolina folks. And the laws are different across the states, I would imagine. So we only do North Carolina probate. We can do any county. We can practice anywhere in North Carolina. But what happens is if you lost a loved one, but you don't live here, then the people who live out of state will call and say, I need help. Or there could be a primary estate in a different state, but they just have one asset here, like a home or a rental property. And they, they need what's called a secondary estate or an ancillary. And so I'll do that piece for them. Before we wrap things up, Mariah, what would you say is. The one thing you want to leave our listeners with today. Again, you know, I'm just, I'm really grateful to be able to help people. And it does sound a little cliche when people say, Oh, why did you want to be a lawyer? And a lot of lawyers, believe it or not, will say, I wanted to help people. And lawyers don't really have the greatest reputation for helping, right? Well, and just, you know, they get it better out, but there really are a lot of lawyers out there that really want to help people. And it is such a privilege to be able to truly help people. And I also would say this, like, I do take the attorney and counselor at law role very seriously. A lot of people just want to be a lawyer. But with what I do, if you've had a loved one who loses capacity, you're already grieving a loss. If you've lost someone to death, you've lost, you know, you're grieving. So I'm kind of like a grief counselor in some respects that people come to me and they sometimes have a foggy brain and they can't even move forward to the next thing. Going to the bank to close. a bank account because their loved one died. Removing their name off the bank account is like a breakdown for some people. You know, it's so sad. And so what I do is I take that heavy burden of all these technical details and the finances and the nuances and the spreadsheets and all the court requirements and I, I bear that burden for them. I've never thought of it that way before. Thank you so much. I feel like I've learned so much from this conversation. Seriously. Well, you guys are wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I guess we're out of time, Mariah, but, before we wrap up, let's remind everyone how they can, how they can get in touch with you. Yeah. The best way is our website, Garlock, G A R L O C K. A N D McKinney, M C K I N N E Y dot com. You can read a little bit about me, read a little bit about the practice areas, my law partner, and then just on my bio it says send Mariah a message, you just send me a message. And I will get in touch with you or someone at our office will. What about social media? Are you on social media at all? Yeah, we have a Facebook page. I, you know, people can message me from Facebook. You can just look me up. I don't care if you message me through my personal page. I use it pretty much only for business anyways. Anyway someone wants to try to get in touch with me. I will respond. Okay, so insiders, you know that you can go to our show notes where we'll have the website link for you along with any links to Mariah's socials. So thank you, Mariah, for joining us today and telling us all about Garlock and McKinney. And it was a pleasure chatting with you and getting to know you. I think you're awesome. And Marlon, you did great. I love having you as a host for Topsill Insider and I'm really looking forward to having you do a lot more interviews for us. Thank you. Same here. I'm, I'm excited about it. Hey, if you enjoyed today's episode of Topsail Insider, please show your support by clicking the follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast listening platform. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. Please also go to topsailinsider.Com and join our mailing list by clicking on the Make Me a Topsail Insider button. While you're there, you can click the send me a voicemail button and let me know exactly what you're thinking. Your message just might be on an episode of Topsail Insider. You can email me at Christa at TopsillInsider. com or call or text me at 910 800 0111. Thank you for listening and supporting Topsill Insider and our local businesses and nonprofits. These are our neighbors and our friends and together we build a mighty and a beautiful community I'm super proud to be a part of. I'll see you around Topsail.